If I see a Bb in C Major, which tells me right away I’m dealing with a flat 7, I would play that note as G natural in A Major because it’s the flat 7 in the key of A..so, it’s perfectly acceptable to transpose from 1 key to another like this, right? What DOES matter is you come in playing in the right key…agreed? SO, YA, I just learned of the whole transposed instrument thing, very very confusing when I don’t know the theory. I saw (Bb became C-E-G) But with a key change I have to make two adjustments in my head: the Bb I read I ‘transposed” to C, but now need to do it again and play D if they changed the key to C. Just too much to do too quickly. Yes, Like I said in the video, it’s called an Eb saxophone because when we play a C it’s actually an Eb concert pitch on the piano, so always think 3 semi-tones below. I’ve done the same. If not, looking at a piano keyboard may be helpful. I’ve had the pleasure and good luck to play with great artists and now with my own sons. The Alto Sax plays 9 notes lower and the Tenor 14 notes lower than concert. Now the other side: from C to the left, you add one flat. So when a Bb tenor sax plays it’s written C it sounds Bb on a piano. Hi Rainer, you should take into account the octave too. What are you gonna do? Just the tone directly left – so for F you add one flat and this is Bb. Whether you play an alto saxophone, tenor saxophone or any others, the range is the same for all saxophone, therefor, the saxophone fingering chart shown below applies to every type of saxophone. For Bb you add Eb etc. This interval is a minor 3rd. as far as I learned, Adolphe Sax build his first instruments in C-tune, because he first wanted his instrument played in an orchestra, so concert tune was the natural choice. looking at the E. That is 4 right of the C – you know now that E has 4 #’s. It may be easy once you know how, but it takes time and practice to get all these things right. So Bb is the actual pitch it is playing. Now to the accidentials: You know that C (major, we speak about major scales here) does not have any accidentials. Apologies Johnny. i understand all the above, (have many years concert band, classical , orchestral, etc) For many years now however , I have only been playing blues, rock reggae etc with bar bands. look at a piano and if you play a key then move up to the very next key (black or white) without skipping any of them, this is a semi-tone. We can assume it’s for this reason it just didn’t work out as well. So now I do not have the notes that the guitarist should be playing and I was (still am) lost, because we started in Bb and I knew how to ‘transpose” in my head every note (notation?) It’s simple though. Yes I’m lazy, but it just makes more sense. How do I recognise a key quickly? So here is my simple rule: from concert, you play one tone higher and add two sharps (#) or leave out two flats (b). It enjoyed a short-lived popularity then not. As for the 1, 4 and 5, I’m going to figure out what that is, and learn that too. I don’t understand the discussion around the 4th (F in this case) as the third is used in the chord? So as a tenor or soprano sax player just think one whole tone interval above the piano concert pitch. 2 or 3 what??? So I am starting with Johnny’s basic course to see what gaps need to be filled. But it works, and I’m too old to try and relearn the theory they tried to teach me 50 years ago. taking it one step further, you can play the C major scale (CDEFGAB) and know that you can use those notes to improvise as well. It seemed to work and it served to fill in among the other instruments. I basically get the transposition thing now but I’m thinking this is gonna suck the fun out of everything. Let’s say we’re playing a song in C Major and we want to transpose that to A Major, just as examples. Not that that’s of any relevance to the topic started. You’re not the first person to wonder about this question that’s for sure! Larger and lower pitched than the "typical" saxophone, the alto sax, but still smaller than the hulking baritone, the tenor is a common yet unique saxophone to play. Because it just didn’t sound as good as the other transposing saxes. $70.00 Buy Now. I’m talking about when we’re in a room with a band and the guitar player says this songs in the key of G The only problem i still have on the alto is remembering if i’m 3 semitones below or above the piano note. The easy ones!! Best thing you can do is practice all the keys on your own and then you’ll be prepared for any situation. Just didn’t work as well. I had this crazy idea, told the wife this is crazy and no doubt wrong for several reasons but why not simply re-name my finger chart with the concert transposed equivalent note “labels” and since I havn’t really learned anything yet, I’ll just learn and remember the fingering as being called the equivalent note on guitar…. One of my horn section players, a masters educated trumpet player recently described my arrangements as “amazing” and “once you get used to his style of notation you become a convert.” I am extremely comfortable talking to string players about keys, ones, thirds, fifths, etc, but am also reluctant when I’m introduced to a horn player who needs to read my notation, because I know it’s not the accepted style and might look childlike to an educated musician. The F as a chord progression is the 4 chord which is one of the major and most important chords along with the 1 and 5. I learnt the transposed keys by heart – at least the ones we used most often. LOL I’ve also found the difference on Alto and Tenor to be 5 semi-tones, so if we hear something on the Alto that we wanna play on Tenor, we just account for those 5 semi tones in our minds and we know instantly what key to play in, right? They are usually kept as a collectable. So i.e. Your pointer finger goes on 1, your middle finger goes on 2, and your ring finger goes on 3. The size of the C Melody sax was in between that of an alto and a tenor… a little bigger than the alto and a little smaller than the tenor. So, yes it is possible to make a non-transposing saxophone, one that would be in concert pitch like most other instruments. Question : What is the pitch of our Tenor, an Alto take five. If I’m on Alto I playing with my guitar friend whose in the key of E, on the Alto I will play in the key of C#, 3 semi-tones below the key of E. It’s a simple as that, piece of cake! the thing we are subtracting or adding is a semi-tone, which is the very next note. ... Bis Key for Vintage Conn Tenor. For those who know all their minor 3rds this is easy but when you’re not sure if it’s a major or minor 3rd you can just count 3 semi-tones. – just the tone 2 left to your scale. Think about that for a minute. The tenor sax sounds one octave lower than the soprano sax but the transposition key-wise is the same. My simple solution is to “think” in concert pitch, I simply “relearned the fingering” so Guitarist says “G” I play “G ” ( really the “F” fingering I guess) I only play Tenor , Not sure if any downside to this as I rarely use charts of any sort and when I do just follow guitar tabs or keyboard. I think what Johnny has been saying on here is exactly what I’m looking for. your A example is the same because F# is 3 semi-tones below A. BTW, 3 semi-tones is the same as saying a minor 3rd. This means that they are not in concert pitch like a piano or guitar. I thought about an easy way to remember this pitch issue for when transposing music – just ask the question. Hi Johnny, thank you for the advice I will try that. I found the transposing first very confusing, but I found a simple explanation: the tenor sax (Bb) sounds one full tone deeper (Bb) than noted. That IS simple! As both instruments are larger than a recorder, they play deeper by this many notes. I had a hunch there was something up when I kept hearing people talk about playing such and such note immediately followed by “concert different note”. That’s simple math. I like Johnny’s quick way of remembering which note to play on your Alto sax. for pete’s sake… who cares about how many notes or octaves you’re going to be off of the piano? That’s if you want to play with another instrument at exactly the same pitch. All saxophones are transposing instruments. Johnny – an excellent explanation of the relationship between the alto/tenor sax and other instruments playing in concert C. If an Eb saxophone such as the alto or bari, plays it’s written C it sounds Eb on the piano. As there are 12 notes to an octave that is Bb below C, plus and octave for the Tenor. Some explanations just lose me. doing this will feel slightly strange or uncomfortable at first (and so it should) but keep doing it every day and it will feel right and if you actually start playing with more of the mp in your mouth you will notice your tone improving. I played off the guitarist’s music sheet. two of these semi-tones equals a whole tone, thats why when you count up 2 semitones you end up playing in the right key when on tenor, tenor is one whole tone above concert pitch. • Tenor (left) and soprano saxophones, showing their comparative sizes In fact the 4 is 5 counted down from the main tone 1. (Tenor) = 14 (Alto) Take Five = 9
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